Curse

Pandora's box · Dec 01, 2008, 07:51 PM // 19:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Molock

... (snap)
If Anet wants to implement a high level cap they better be prepared to develop a lengthy and interesting storyline and avoid the filler/grind quests I mentioned because those lead to mediocrity.

That's true, yet it won't stop players from grinding. I consider Neverwinter Nights a well designed game where you can level through the storyline. Yet I know many players who switch their singleplayer chr between mods, to make some fast money, get some better gear, and higher levels, and than import that chr again in the singleplayer campaign. Bottomline is: Lots of players like to grind! And those are not necesarilly WoW players. A good designed game keeps the interest of both lovers of a good storyline, and grinders.

super strokey · Dec 01, 2008, 09:21 PM // 21:21

I like the idea of more levels if they actually make it storyline relevant. Like in rpgs games where the game is 40+ hours of gameplay and you need to level the whole way through is the way to do it.

garethporlest18 · Dec 01, 2008, 10:05 PM // 22:05

Not having any levels would be cool too, just content. But there should be some sort of character progression because I"m pretty sure a lot of people like that aspect, not of this game really but of RPGs. I'm pretty sure they could work in something.

Molock · Dec 01, 2008, 11:54 PM // 23:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pandora's box

That's true, yet it won't stop players from grinding. I consider Neverwinter Nights a well designed game where you can level through the storyline. Yet I know many players who switch their singleplayer chr between mods, to make some fast money, get some better gear, and higher levels, and than import that chr again in the singleplayer campaign. Bottomline is: Lots of players like to grind! And those are not necesarilly WoW players. A good designed game keeps the interest of both lovers of a good storyline, and grinders.

My point was that those who don't want any grind can enjoy the game by "just playing". If some people feel like killing the same foes over and over they can do so and might simply be a few levels higher than necessary for point x in the game. My main problem with unlimited levels is the unavoidable level discrimination that would take place in end-game areas. Just take a look at ursan groups, towards the end many groups only accepted r10 Norn. Imagine if the title had no end and ursan become stronger and stronger... the required rank would constantly rise through time until grind lovers reached such a high rank that the end game areas would be a real joke, even more than they were.

Two problems arise; 1. Rank/level discrimination gets worse and worse and 2. anet would have to constantly add new content to keep up with the ever increasing levels (which they won't be able to afford). If levels stop affecting attributes at x level problem 1 still applies but problem 2 wouldn't.

bamm bamm bamm · Dec 02, 2008, 12:41 AM // 00:41

Actually stating a figure is a complete waste of time. In GW2 getting to level 20 might take 2 days or it might take 2 years.

Bryant Again · Dec 02, 2008, 12:42 AM // 00:42

I don't care what the cap is as long as there's still a meaningful progression, even if it's level 5.

bel unbreakable · Dec 02, 2008, 12:54 AM // 00:54

level discrimination shouldint be a problem a long as the game content tracks the chars development having content avalible as you reach a certain level rather than being able to get level 20 content at level 4 or 5 like we have now

Bahumhat · Dec 02, 2008, 12:58 AM // 00:58

if they just mix Factions quest rewards with Prophecies like storyline/quests, then a high level cap would be like the level 20 cap.

Scythe O F Glory · Dec 02, 2008, 01:09 AM // 01:09

Keep it at 20 plz. I'd hate to see
"LFG mish level 60+"
Higher level cap=elitism and level discrimination= game phails.

Trylo · Dec 02, 2008, 01:48 AM // 01:48

since they said everyone will be automatically set at the same level for PvP, im going to guess there is no set level limit. but they obviously arent going to let you be level1000 and just kill everything in sight in PvE, so i would assume somewhere the levels would stop being useful. probably a similar ratio of 20:24 for people:enemy.

Some_guy · Dec 02, 2008, 03:00 AM // 03:00

I don't really care about any particular number - All I care about is this -

If we are going to have to grind -Which, personally, I don't mind grinding at all, if....-
It is going to count for something.

If the level cap is 100, but 50 is decent enough to get through most of the game, then hey, I;ll be fine with getting 50 on most of my characters, and getting 80-90 or so on my main.

So really, the point should be "grind or no grind?", it should be "is the grind worth it?".

Yawgmoth · Dec 02, 2008, 03:12 AM // 03:12

Caps are uncool, they're just limitations. And sooo overused, from GW1 to all WoW clones. I want something NEW and refreshing.

With the announcement of a possibility of GW2 having no cap at all I got my hopes up very high. Hopes for something NEW instead of same old ideas copied again.
If there's a cap it doesn't matter if it's high or low number, it works the same! And it's always the same big disappointment.

People shouldn't be so afraid of the concept of No Cap. Don't be so narrowsighted, open your minds! Forget about existing mmos with very big levels or no caps that are full of suckage. Anet is not going to clone them, no chance.

No Cap doesn't have to mean infinite mindless grinding being the way to pwn pve!
It doesn't have to mean absurdly high numbers and differences between players.
It doesn't have to be anywhere close to those existing games with no cap, and it undoubtly won't be.

It's just a matter of designing it right. And I believe Anet CAN do it.

With the No Cap concept done right GW2 has the potential to become a new quality it the genre.
A revolution, a completely new generation. An MMO that's both accessible for everyone just like GW1 and rewarding for everyone no matter how much dedicated they are, even the most extreme hardcores. Appealing to a huge variety of players, much wider than ANY currently existing MMO. And with the best business model imaginable, for the ultimate win.

KoleAurow 23 · Dec 02, 2008, 03:29 AM // 03:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yawgmoth

Caps are uncool, they're just limitations. And sooo overused, from GW1 to all WoW clones. I want something NEW and refreshing.

With the announcement of a possibility of GW2 having no cap at all I got my hopes up very high. Hopes for something NEW instead of same old ideas copied again.
If there's a cap it doesn't matter if it's high or low number, it works the same! And it's always the same big disappointment.

People shouldn't be so afraid of the concept of No Cap. Don't be so narrowsighted, open your minds! Forget about existing mmos with very big levels or no caps that are full of suckage. Anet is not going to clone them, no chance.

No Cap doesn't have to mean infinite mindless grinding being the way to pwn pve!
It doesn't have to mean absurdly high numbers and differences between players.
It doesn't have to be anywhere close to those existing games with no cap, and it undoubtly won't be.

It's just a matter of designing it right. And I believe Anet CAN do it.

With the No Cap concept done right GW2 has the potential to become a new quality it the genre.
A revolution, a completely new generation. An MMO that's both accessible for everyone just like GW1 and rewarding for everyone no matter how much dedicated they are, even the most extreme hardcores. Appealing to a huge variety of players, much wider than ANY currently existing MMO. And with the best business model imaginable, for the ultimate win.

The reason people continue using caps is because it works. You dont even understand level discrimination because you like many other people probably dont do Ursan, or go for titles in GW1.

PEOPLE-Just because GW2 MAY have a level cap does NOT make it a copy of WoW. lol

Legendm · Dec 02, 2008, 03:34 AM // 03:34

So what +20 level cap leads to grind? Get over yourself. Whether you mind the grind or not you have to admit 20 is too little.

I hope its around 40 or 50 I wouldn't mind it being higher, it's just that the 40 - 50 range is large of enough to satisfy a number of players and small enough not to have a huge level gap between players.

wetsparks · Dec 02, 2008, 05:02 AM // 05:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yawgmoth

Caps are uncool, they're just limitations. And sooo overused, from GW1 to all WoW clones. I want something NEW and refreshing.

With the announcement of a possibility of GW2 having no cap at all I got my hopes up very high. Hopes for something NEW instead of same old ideas copied again.
If there's a cap it doesn't matter if it's high or low number, it works the same! And it's always the same big disappointment.

People shouldn't be so afraid of the concept of No Cap. Don't be so narrowsighted, open your minds! Forget about existing mmos with very big levels or no caps that are full of suckage. Anet is not going to clone them, no chance.

No Cap doesn't have to mean infinite mindless grinding being the way to pwn pve!
It doesn't have to mean absurdly high numbers and differences between players.
It doesn't have to be anywhere close to those existing games with no cap, and it undoubtly won't be.

It's just a matter of designing it right. And I believe Anet CAN do it.

With the No Cap concept done right GW2 has the potential to become a new quality it the genre.
A revolution, a completely new generation. An MMO that's both accessible for everyone just like GW1 and rewarding for everyone no matter how much dedicated they are, even the most extreme hardcores. Appealing to a huge variety of players, much wider than ANY currently existing MMO. And with the best business model imaginable, for the ultimate win.

Other companies have tried different ways of leveling a character, one that comes to mind quickly is Final Fantasy 10. And people hated it. That is why Final Fantasy 10-2 and Final Fantasy 12 went back to normal leveling. I think Final Fantasy 2 had something where you didn't gain levels but you became more proficient at using a sword or axe the more you used it against stronger opponents, and what it turned into was forcing you to pick a weapon type and stick to it and it wasn't popular either. This also worked with your health, the more damage you took from stronger enemies the more health you would get. Point is, they are going to stick with what they know people like and that is a normal leveling system.

Zahr Dalsk · Dec 02, 2008, 05:40 AM // 05:40

Let max be reachable in a few hours like it is in GW: Factions. Max level in Guild Wars is really when the game starts; let the game start soon after the character is made.

Bryant Again · Dec 02, 2008, 05:54 AM // 05:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk

Let max be reachable in a few hours like it is in GW: Factions. Max level in Guild Wars is really when the game starts; let the game start soon after the character is made.

Or they could make the game start at lvl 1.

Also, I've noticed a lot of people somehow coorelating "high levels" to immediately equate to "grind". Ya'll need to stop that.

germanturkey · Dec 02, 2008, 06:14 AM // 06:14

Using FFX as an example isn't a good one.. some people loved it, some people didn't. but the way it was done made it so that you could develop your character the way you wanted it regardless of class.

i would prefer something like that, but with branching job lines.

Operative 14 · Dec 02, 2008, 06:49 AM // 06:49

I'd say max it out at 50, but leave the amount of work you need to get there at the same level it takes to get to level 20 now.

Abedeus · Dec 02, 2008, 07:01 AM // 07:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Operative 14

I'd say max it out at 50, but leave the amount of work you need to get there at the same level it takes to get to level 20 now in Prophecies.

Fixed for you. Otherwise, it would be meaningless.